Alexa: [00:00:00] Elliott O’Connor and Big Billy Clark, it’s a pleasure to meet you both and welcome to the Sing and Teachers Talk podcast. Billy, how is it going?

Billy: I’m amazing. How are you?

Alexa: I’m good. I’m good. I’m I’m, I’m kind of jealous of your LA weather though, because just looking at us on screen, I’m so pale. compared to

you,

Billy: This is just lighting. This is just you know, let, see. I can change this.

Alexa: Yeah. I mean, you still look you,

Elliott: but you still, you still Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Billy always had a lovely glow to him, so.

Alexa: It may feel like, to some of us, that the music industry is like, finding Platform 9 to get to Hogwarts.

Like, some of us are rushing at that brick wall and we’re feeling the impact, whereas others are getting through and feeling the magic spot. So, Elliott, why can the music industry appear so mystifying to muddles like me?

Elliott: I was like, I do like [00:01:00] why is it mystifying? I, I think to me, one of the things that I love about it is like, there actually is no like one course, right?

And sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to, to why it works and why it doesn’t. I think so when it does, you’re just like trying to hold on to this. Like, as you put it, you’re sort of like. this magic because you know, I just speak for Billy probably too, but we’ve met way more, you know, artists that are so talented, that haven’t made it then that have, right.

And whatever making it is for you. But to me, it’s it’s an amazing thing when you can see, you know, it’s, it’s timing it’s. The person’s ability, it’s the work they’re putting into it. It’s like all of these things, the stars really do have to align for you to have your, like, even opportunity to then pass through, even to get on that, like At the train station, right, forget even [00:02:00] getting into the nine and three quarters, like, even to get to the train station, you’ve had to have gotten through a lot, because the numbers are so high of these people that have sought out to have the idea that, oh, I’m going to do this, and then that dwindles down into like, okay, maybe you have an opportunity.

And that dwindles down again to, like, actually go out and do it. So, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s an amazing thing. I don’t know if you can quantify it though in my opinion. Hmm.

Alexa: It’s not often that we really see the process of an artist working their way into the music industry. It almost seems like you turn on the radio and then there’s a new person there, and then they’re this household name that feels like they’ve been there forever.

So Billy, how can singers and singing teachers as well get a true understanding of what it’s really like to graft as an artist?

Billy: That’s a good question for me because I spent most of my career at record labels doing A& R. And, you know, A& [00:03:00] R stands for Artists in the Repertoire, and the A& Rs, all the labels are the ones that kind of discover talent or find talent for the label.

And one of the big things that I’m always been passionate about as well as Elliott is, is artist development. And I think that, you know, there’s a lack of that now with the, with the major label systems. And so that’s the reason why, you know, artists are forced to do everything themselves. And so I think that a lot of times, you know, you, you watch some of these award shows and you see artists win, you know best new artists, for example, right?

But you don’t realize that 10, 15 years before that, they were putting out music and, and working, you know, so there’s, there’s, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done for every artist, you know, trying to find their sound, their, their, their, their niche, their, their songwriting ability and. That takes a long time, you know, so a lot of times, you know, when an artist does have a song that breaks out, it’s like, oh, now the world knows who that person is, but there’s a lot of years of them working where people didn’t really know who they [00:04:00] were, you know, and they might put out 10, 15, 20 projects or songs leading up to that moment, but you know, they, they, they, they finally kind of broke through that, through that wall.

Elliott: And also, too, like you know, if the label is doing their job, it does make it feel like this person came out of nowhere, right? And all of a sudden, they’re everywhere. And as you put it, they’re a household name, but that’s just if You know, these companies are doing the job really well where it feels like it just sort of happened organically when in reality It’s not just the artist’s hard work But a team of people spending a lot of time and resources to make it feel that way Because no one wants to feel like they were pushed On them, right?

Like an artist, you want to feel like you discovered them organically and you made the decision that you like them or not. So, like Billie said, it’s like there’s so much work for years. Or, if it does happen to, you know, [00:05:00] if it does happen fast, we, I don’t, I’m sure if we’ve seen longevity come from that.

Either they’ve had a real quick moment due to whatever, you know, social media claim or, or a moment on visibility for some ring and they’re consumed really fast, but because they didn’t develop at, like said, I mean, Bailey are really, really, we love like working on things and trying to really craft this person, this artist that is also going to be a product.

It’s like building a house, right? And so we want to be able to really spend the time to build the house before the world sees it. Because, you know, you’re gonna be able to get a lot more for it in the end.

Alexa: And Billy, what do you say to artists who are really attracted to the music industry because of the idea of fame?

And how can we best help a singer to kind of reorganize their priorities a little bit and work realistically [00:06:00] without losing their motivation?

Billy: It’s very common, unfortunately. But I think that, you know, people look at the music industry, you know, do videos and they see this lifestyle that’s That’s not always realistic, you know and that’s the, the, the catalyst to want them to do music and, and, and be successful because they want the fame.

You know, but at the end of the day, Ellie and I always preach to each other and to artists that like, you know, no matter who you are as an artist, stay true, stay true to who you are and what you want to do. There’s so many artists that will change their sound. To, to do what’s now and what’s current and what everyone’s kind of, you know, listening to.

But everything always comes full circle. So you can, you can’t do that because you know, unfortunately, you know, the consumers aren’t, aren’t stupid. And they can see when something is, is, is not genuine. And, and I think that, or authentic. I think that You know, there’s artists that I work with now that comes off extremely authentic because it’s, it’s, she really is authentic, it’s who [00:07:00] she is and how she speaks and how she deals with situations and I think that like, that authenticity is, is what’s kind of really pushed her into this whole other stratosphere of, of being an artist because People can see when, when you’re trying too hard to, you know to be famous for the wrong reasons and, and there’s, there’s, there has to be talent there and there has to be something special that connects you with others, you know, and I think that unfortunately, if you’re chasing it for the fame, it’s, it’s going to be very short lived.

Elliott: Fame is a byproduct of the results of hopefully you succeeding as an artist. And also, I’m not sure if I know anybody that could. has fame that genuinely, truly enjoys it.

Alexa: Yeah, I was gonna say, it sounds and seems horrific to be famous.

Elliott: It sounds incredibly horrific, actually. Like, to me, and Billy again, there’s been around people where you just go, I would go nuts if this was the case for me.

They enjoy the perks of some of the things, obviously. [00:08:00] Like, you understand how privileged and you know, those situations can be. But also, I mean, it’s It’s all, it’s a lot. There’s a reason why they go, they don’t want that. Once they’re there, you realize, oh, this isn’t what I wanted at all. So if you truly didn’t love being an artist, you won’t want to, I mean, again, you think that it’s something like Billy said, you think that the illusion is something.

And then when you’re there, it’s, it’s completely not that anymore.

Billy: I saw this, I saw this interview the other day with Billy Eilish that you know, I mean, obviously, you know, she, she’s done amazing for herself and she’s. You know, this amazing huge artist I don’t, I don’t ever get a chance to really see, hear her talk about her life and what makes her tick and all these different things, right?

She was doing an interview and she was really she really opened up about, you know, saying all I ever wanted to do is do music. Mm. You know I was gonna kind of side off, sorry.

Alexa: You can, fuck it, do it, it’s

[00:09:00] fine.

Billy: She was basically saying, you know. All I ever wanted to do was music. Like, fuck everybody wanting to know what I’m doing, what I’m wearing, you know, why my hair is this color, all these different things.

And so, it was very powerful for me to, to, to hear her and watch her really be vulnerable and, and, and, and discuss that. Cause I was like, I never really knew where she stood on all of this stuff. And she was, it was very like, You know, I got into music because I love music. I love writing of singing Fuck all the other shit that comes along with it Like it’s it’s it’s such a fucking pain in the ass for me to for for me to get put on blast or under a microscope because of you know Yes, I said that.

I was with this person. I was with that person. I, you know, so it made me feel so much more relatable to her and I was, I watched the interview and I was like, yeah, you know, and that’s what all artists feel like. A lot of artists feel that way. It’s, it’s, it’s not, you know, they, they, they get into the industry because they love music and they, they have a gift and they have a passion [00:10:00] and all the other stuff is like, I don’t know.

Why do I, I don’t know. What does it matter who I’m dating or what, you know, all these

Elliott: other things. Well, also too, it’s like, it is oddly enough, like kind of a pretty bold and brave thing to say that as a celebrity, cause you’re going to have people that go, Oh, poor you, you’re just like, you know, making a ton of money and you’re famous and who wouldn’t want that.

I’m telling you right now, 95 percent of these people do not want that. It’s what comes with whatever the passion was an actor, an athlete, a musician, whatever, you know, it’s, it’s yeah, it’s something. Yeah,

Alexa: it doesn’t seem to me like fame has anything to do with the artistry, that fame is to do with the secrecy of a person’s life, which is not the art.

Elliott: And that’s what it feels incredibly unfair, right? Like, and again, you’re talking about someone, you know, Billie Eilish, even though she’s been around now for, I don’t know, a handful of years, whatever. I don’t know. How old is she now, Billie? Sure. [00:11:00] I’m not sure. She’s early 20s. So you’re talking about someone that was out when she was 17, 18, 19 years old.

Are you kidding me? Like that is a whole lot to deal with. It’s a whole lot to deal with for anybody, but let alone growing up and being a female in it. That’s a whole lot of mess that you’re just like, okay, she started making music with her brother and then it hit. And now she’s gotta deal with all this.

Oh, yeah. No thanks. Yeah.

Alexa: Nicki Minaj did an interview about three years ago, and she said in that interview that labels care more for artist popularity than they do for talent. So, Elliott, what do you think about that? Is that true? And if so, how on earth do we navigate that?

Elliott: Well, sure, because it is true, in my opinion, just because Labels also have been wrong many, many times [00:12:00] on talent, just because they’re talented does not mean it’s going to work right.

And so popularity usually translates into working or at least selling records, selling tickets, merchant, whatever. It’s, it’s good for business. Popularity is good for business, whether, cause as talent, like is kind of it’s preferential, right? I could listen to something and go, this is just incredible.

And you go, eh, it’s just not for me. If someone’s popular and someone’s famous, everyone’s pretty much decided this person is popular, and this person’s famous, or this person is of note of something, right? How do we change that? Is that what you said?

Alexa: How do we navigate it?

Like, how do we become popular?

I just feel like it’s a bit like those high school chicks, you know?

Elliott: Sure, sure.

Alexa: The Popular girl.

Elliott: Me and Billie talked about this a lot, where it was like We really like to believe that like eventually that’s going to go away maybe and that like the cream does rise to the top and that if you do have talent and consistently do it, I’d really do like to believe that you will have a career, you know, in [00:13:00] this.

It’s not always true, but I think also advocating for yourself is a huge thing, right? So meaning why mainly me and Billy do vocalize you is like we’re, we’re big on artist development and also independence. Right, so stop being so worried or trying to hurry the process of somebody from a label coming Signing you and your career is just gonna take off right like you have to be prepared to do this yourself And start to make some noise yourself before anybody wants to get involved.

A booking agent, a manager, a record label, a producer, songwriters, whatever. So I think for us, it’s just about always like preparing people for what’s to come. And the harsh reality of, I know so many artists that look and go, well, this person that is a big named artist go, I I’m better than this person.

This person doesn’t need to write their songs. Can’t really sing live. Whatever, you know, but also, you know, [00:14:00] it’s hard to get hung up on about that stuff because that’s the reality, right? So my whole thing is like, well, what are you gonna do? You want to stop or do you want to do like, you know what the score is?

And so for me, at least how my mind works is as long as I know what the situation is It’s a little easier to kind of deal with it and keep pushing through.

Billy, how do you define talent yourself?

Billy: Hmm. I mean, there’s so many layers to that question. I think for me, when I’m looking at an artist I think what the first thing I do is, is, you know, if they are talented, as far as like, they’re an amazing singer, they have a great voice.

They’re a great performer or they are a great songwriter. Those are the things that I kind of like look at first, obviously. And if they kind of pass that and I’m kind of intrigued at that point, like this person’s really talented, whether it’s locally or, you know, whatever. I have a process that I have to kind of go through at that point where I sit down with them and kind of go, okay, like they, they passed [00:15:00]the initial test.

Now it’s, you know, are they marketable? Are they. You know, are they crazy? Are they are they driven? Are they focused? You know, are they troublemakers? Are they? , all these different things that come into play that I have to kind of suss out, because at the end of the day, it’s like, I think that when I’m looking to, to work with an artist or an, or even an artist is looking work, like looking to work with me, there’s so many questions that have to be answered.

Like I just, like, you’re investing into me as a manager. You know, I’m, I’m taking that same, that same risk or that same, you know, so it’s like, is it worth, is it worth the time? You know, I, what’s the, what’s, what’s the risk look like? Are you gonna get. A year down the line and go, I don’t want to sing the more or, you know, and that happens.

I mean, there’s been so many times where I’ve worked with artists that are, that are so focused and driven and they, they, they, I don’t want to be, I don’t want to sing the more, or I don’t want to, I don’t, I’m going to do, I’m going to do this kind of music and just change the whole thing up, which is, which is fine.

I mean, every, you know, every artist is, is their own, their own person and they, and [00:16:00] they could change their career path, however they want. You know, sometimes it just doesn’t work for me and, and for the plans that we made. As a team. So you know, but that’s, I think that’s the first thing that I always, I always look for is, is are they a great singer?

Are they a great artists? Are they an artist? You know, are they a great songwriter? Are they a great performer? Those are the main things, you know, cause I, cause in my mind, I go into. How would I market this if they were an artist? What, what are the things that I can do to, to make this stand out and be special and, and, and have its own lane?

I mean, there’s times where I’ve seen artists that typically someone wouldn’t look at and go, oh, they’re amazing, but they might have a really quirky, weird thing to their voice where I go, I could do something with this where it’s, where it would, it would you know, break through the norm because it’s, it’s got a little pinch of something different.

And I could, and I could, I could really exploit that into something, you know, really cool, you know? I’m sure it’s different for everybody. I mean, you know, I’m one person. I know that, you know, other A& [00:17:00] Rs and other managers have different. Ideals. And that’s what makes everything special because, you know, if I assigned an artist to a label, I would make a completely different album than if that same artist went to another label with a different A& R person.

And that’s what, you know, that’s what kind of, I feel like makes me unique to to, to my ideas. And, you know, so.

Alexa: Billy listed things like talent, all around artistry, performance, how marketable somebody is, who they are as a person. Is there any one of those things that is more important than another?

Like, if someone is a is a great performer and they can be really marketable, but they’re an arsehole, is that a no go? Or can you can you work on the personality and how they behave with others over somebody who just needs a bit more of a boost in the performance area?

Elliott: Oh, that, that’s, I feel like that’s a super preferable, if you were to ask me, no chance.

I could not work with somebody that was like that, because again, if we’re going in this together, I’d [00:18:00] much rather bring in people to make your stuff better, and work with somebody that is pleasant or again, not even pleasant, but as long as we can get along well, right? That’s totally fine too because it’s, but, but I’m not about to, I don’t care how good you are, if I see you.

You know, if you’re, if you’re difficult to work with for me, or if I see you being like that with other people, like, I’m gonna be super turned off to where I, I’m not, you’re not gonna get a good version from me either, and so therefore it’s like, so not, it’s so not worth that, but that’s, again, that’s me, there are, I know, a few managers that are like, yep, really don’t care about that, like, I don’t need to have a relationship with this person, and it’s gonna be good business, and whatever, It’s I can’t really take my emotion out of that.

Like, I don’t want to be that manager. Me personally, and I know Billy’s the same way, like, I want to really, like, fall in love with whoever I’m working with too, and feel like, because then when things are [00:19:00] not hitting the way that you want them to, it’s so easy to be like, alright, you believe in me, and I believe in you, and we’re gonna, like, go, and we’re gonna figure this out, and we’re gonna battle.

If it’s not working out, and you don’t, can’t stand the person, I’m gonna be looking for every which way to, like, get off the freeway. You know what I mean? So no, I cannot work with somebody that’s like that. Me, personally. I’ve already made that, that decision amongst myself. So it’s actually not difficult for me.

Just isn’t for me.

Alexa: Yeah, sure.

Billy: It’s tough. Some of these artists are crazy.

Elliott: Crazy! Most of them. But again, but, but it’s, it’s similar to finding a, a friend or a partner, right, where That version of crazy could work for you. What are the non negotiables, right? So, and as long as you throw them out there quickly, and we have to do that as managers to go, listen, I’m not this person.

I’m not that person. If that seems cool for you, let’s go. Let’s figure this out. If it is, no [00:20:00]problem, too.

Billy: It’s weighing it. You know, sometimes there’s artists that are extremely talented that you kind of go I have to just we can get through this because I know that this is going to be something that that, you know, I could take to that next level, but it’s.

It’s, it’s this, you know,

Elliott: a shit attitude. That was a shit attitude. I don’t care. Like difficult to work with, like, you know, unorganized tardiness, what, all those things can be like, okay, come on, we’re going to get through this. You know a rotten person and just sort of like having an attitude about everything to everybody too.

I’m like, yuck. Like, I’m not, I can’t attach myself to you either because I can’t even defend you to when people go, I know, I know, like again. It’s I have to, I have to fully, you know, want to work with you.

Alexa: Yeah, definitely. So, having, having that thought then, if we were to create this kind of recipe of a great [00:21:00] artist who you would be really happy to work with.

What are the ingredients and what’s the dish at the end? We can throw, we can throw some things in.

Billy: I think the first thing is just hard working. I think that I can’t want, I can’t want it more than you do. You know and, and I think that as, as a, as a manager, it’s, it’s, it’s so nice because I mean, I work, I, Ellie and I work hard.

I mean, there’s, you know, he’ll tell you there’s times where I don’t eat all day or I don’t, you know, I may get three hours of sleep because it’s, it’s a very, it’s a, it’s a, it’s not like a nine to five, I’m literally getting calls from, From artist clients, you know, 11, 12 at night, 2 in the morning, 5 in the morning and I can’t, you know, you, you, you can’t turn that off and you can’t say, Hey.

Oh, yeah. After hours. It’s too early. I don’t know. I have to, you know, I have to, you know, so

Elliott: but we love this shit though too. That’s why it’s important to want to work with the people you’re working with because it does make it all cool. So continue on.

Billy: [00:22:00] No, I think that, I think the hardworking is the first thing.

I think that you know, people that are focused and know what they want that, that, that goes a long way as well because yeah, I mean, doing it for so long on my end, I, I have ideas and, and, and have seen things that have worked and what doesn’t work. But when an artist comes in with a clear cut, like, I want this, I want this, I want this.

That’s always very, very nice because, you know, we’ve dealt with artists that, we’re going to shoot a music video. What, do you have a concept for the video? And they go, I don’t know. Well, you wrote the song and you, you know, you know what the song is about. Like, you don’t have any ideas for a treatment for the video?

No, I don’t know. Okay, wardrobe. What, what’s the wardrobe? What, what do you want to wear? Eh, I don’t really know. You’re the artist. How do you not know what you want to look like in the video when you want to you know? What I’m down for whatever I’m like, okay, I can’t do this. It’s like

Elliott: they’re not down for whatever too, right?

So you want a clear vision, but also willing to like work like be Collaborative as well, you know, you [00:23:00] don’t I mean because then that can get to a certain thing where you’re just like I’ve made these suggestions, you’re working with me for a reason too, and you’re not willing to sort of hear those things out, and be logical, or at least go, Just, can you try to record this like this just once, like, you’ve gotta, can we try?

So I mean, willing to compromise, not, not the integrity of what they’re doing, but also when someone’s so sure that it’s only their way, Now, there’s a fine line for me there, too.

Alexa: So you’ve got hardworking, collaborative, have a clear vision, what else are you throwing into the mix there? If

Elliott: I can see it, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but if I can see maybe where the end of the rainbow is, and how I would do this to help, that’s actually all I’m looking for.

It doesn’t even have to be, everything can be marketable, right? Like, I don’t even care if it’s popular. I actually like things where I’m like, Oh, I don’t even know what your North Star of an artist would be, like, to follow that trajectory, but you’re [00:24:00] still making this music, and you still want this vision because clearly this is what you want to do.

I’m, that gets me going. Like, stuff that isn’t really even, quote unquote, mainstream. But they’re doing it because they really love it. And I’m like, there you go. Where there’s no person that’s proven to you that it’s, it could even work on a mass scale. So yeah, that’s, that’s something to originality, I guess.

Yeah, that would probably fall under there.

Alexa: When is it a good idea, Billy, for artists to start putting music out there? And is there a right time to hold it back? Or should we be sharing it all, all of the time?

Billy: I mean, I think it’s important that artists, new artists are continually dropping or putting out music because I think you have to, the biggest thing about this industry is that you have to have a story, right?

I think if you’re going to connect with fans and fans want to discover your music, you have to have a story that’s relatable and people could look up and figure out, you know. I like the song. What’s his deal? Where did he come from? If there’s no story it [00:25:00] makes it that much harder. So I think that, you know, in the beginning, it’s very important that artists could, are, you know, if you’re creating music and you feel good about it, put it out, put it out.

You know holding stuff back is, is only prolonging everything that, you know, is, is prolonging the, the, the, the plan. And what are you holding onto it for, you know, for what special moment? At, at what point is it? Is it like, oh, this is the perfect time? No, put it out. I mean, let let the world hear what you’re doing.

You’re gonna continue to grow to, to grow and, and, and, and, and build the story. But you have to start somewhere. So it’s, it’s, it’s always, I, I, I never like people to hold onto stuff unless, unless you know you have a song that you know is undeniable and, and everyone loves it. Maybe figure out the proper strategy around the release, but don’t, don’t hold on to it.

There you go, yeah.

Elliott: Yeah. Yeah. It’s like have a thoughtful release maybe behind it, but also too, me and Billy have seen over the last five years, songs break two years after them being released. There is no shelf life, right? So there’s no, [00:26:00] no concept where you should go, well, I’ve only got, you know, X amount of listeners right now.

I feel like this is just putting the song out and it’s not going to do anything. We’ll. You’re talking about like first week numbers or something like that like that matters You know what? I mean? Like what you’re doing is you’re putting you’re never gonna be wrong for putting out quality great songs in Your library or in your catalog period so when I stumble upon you And I go back and listen and I go, Oh my, these songs are incredible.

Like it doesn’t matter. I’m not even going to look for when you released it. That doesn’t matter at that point. It’s just there for me to fall into. And I use this example all the time. It’s like, if I find a show on, on, you know, Hulu, Netflix or whatever that I’ve never heard of, and it’s got four seasons in it and I start to enjoy it, I’m like, I’m just going to binge.

I’m like, this is incredible. Wait, but like suits, I’m stuck on suits right now. I’m like, that’s what everyone’s, everyone’s stuck on that. Right. He was like, it’s like one of the top streaming shows.[00:27:00] Again, it finds its time. Right. And so for me, it’s like, if I watch a new show and I watched one episode and one drops every week, I’m like.

I don’t even know if next week I’m gonna want to. It’s like, I, I, I, People’s attention spans and the way they consume things now is so different as well. Stop waiting to hold on to something. Also, we don’t know what’s gonna be a hit. Like, nobody knows if it’s actually gonna work, so then what, so if you hold on to something, and then it doesn’t go well right off the bat, you’re gonna be like, Okay, well, why did I do that?

All I did was waste time. Like Billie said, you’re delaying the process here. So.

Alexa: And Elliott, what are your opinions on, on shows like The Voice and X Factor, America’s Got Talent?

Elliott: I think it is it’s really cool entertainment for people. I think people enjoy watching, again, it goes back to the stories too, right?

Everyone loves like a real heartbreaking story for someone to be on there. I think that they provided a platform for [00:28:00] exposure. Me and Billy have had friends that have gone on those shows and some have done really well, some of them get booted right away, like, and also too, I, I think, I like them until I find out how much it affects the people that are entering them, like, such as maybe having them question their ability based off of them not making it far on the show, and I’m like, No, they were just looking, it’s a show, they’re looking for something very specific and that The box that you checked is not what they’re looking for right now.

Like that has nothing to do or thinking hypothetically, you make a run on the entire show. You win the show. That doesn’t mean you’re going to be a success either. How many seasons have all of them combined had American idols on there’s what, 20 something season or something like that. The Voice, X Factor, whatever other ones are there, the different versions of all of them too.

You know what I mean? America’s Got Talent Britain’s Got [00:29:00] Talent, all these. I don’t, I, maybe there’s been, I don’t know, maybe I’m underdoing it, but maybe five people throughout that have actually turned into like, you know, legitimate stars from it. Out of we’re talking like 40 seasons, 50 seasons. So it doesn’t, you know, I think I love it if you know what it is.

Again, it goes back to me just trying to like expose people to go, just be prepared. Just know what you’re getting into. You know what I mean? Cause it’s, it’s going to give you viewership and exposure, but also there comes some stuff through that with contracts and things like that, that they have you sign as well.

So just be aware. And, and make your choice. Is it worth it to you or not?

Billy: I mean, I think that people don’t understand that they don’t always realize that those shows are a TV show. And they think that they’re, they’re, they’re you know, a platform for them to be discovered as an artist and to, you know, Which, which ideally is what’s supposed to happen, but I think in theory it

Elliott: is.

Yeah. But,

Billy: but I think that, I [00:30:00] think that, you know, the fact that it’s a TV show, they focus on the TV element and the stories and, and, and, and they make you fit into the story that they want, the narrative they want. So, so it’s, it’s not ever really, ever about you, it’s about the narrative that, that they want you to be on the, on the show.

So you know, when you realize that that’s the, that’s the, you know how those shows operate, you, you realize it’s not. You know, you may not have the best shot at becoming, you know, that, that winner or that artist because it’s, it’s all about the story and how they, how they develop the story for each artist.

Alexa: I’m just pressing the pause button on the podcast for a very brief moment to invite you to book your free BAST call. If you’ve been thinking about joining the BAST community through one of our courses but you just don’t know which option is the best for you, then why not book your free Zoom chat with our very own Kimberley George who has all the answers.

Head over to basttraining. com forward slash book a call forward slash and click that big blue button. That’s [00:31:00] bastertraining. com forward slash bookercall forward slash. Now, where were we? Billie, how would you like to see singing teachers working with artists that potentially would come and work with yourself or artists who are working with you currently but are still having lessons?

What’s going to be really important for them in their singing teacher relationship?

Billy: I mean, Ellie and I have so many voice teachers that we deal with all over, all over the world. And they’re so important because You know, that’s, that’s the first level, the first layer of, you know, an aspiring singer.

And because, look at it this way, these artists that are all over the world, they don’t always have access to anyone that’s involved in the industry at all, right? So if they know that they have a, a God given gift, I’m a, I’m a singer. I want to be a singer. It’s my passion. I love it. I don’t even know where to go.

You see the, they find a local voice. Coach or voice teacher, and that’s the first layer for them to [00:32:00] really own their, their skills and, and, and develop their talent. So it’s important that, you know, for Ellie and I to build these relationships with these voice teachers, because we need to just. Allow them to know how to develop them properly and how to deal with all the questions that are going to come from the artists.

Like, I want to get a sign of a label. I want to get signed to this. I want to do this. And so those voice teachers are there to, to, to critique the technique in there and, and their, and their gift, right? Their tool. They, a lot of them don’t know how the industry works. So, so I think it’s, it’s, it’s beneficial for, for, for us to have those relationships so that we can educate them on, you know, if they have questions about this.

Reach out to us. We’re here to help. We want to make sure that these, these voice teachers don’t lose any of their students because of their lack of knowing how the industry works or their relationships, you know, I think that for us, it’s like, we would love if you’re, if you’re doing [00:33:00] great, a great job and you’re coaching these kids through you know, Developing their, their, their, honing their, their tool and their skills.

You know, they’re gonna ask you questions, they’re gonna say, Hey, how do I find a booking agent? How do I book shows? How do I do this or do that? If you guys, if most teachers don’t know, they can reach out to Ellie and I. To, to you know, better understand how the industry works and how to answer those questions.

I mean, we have relationships with everybody, so we could always go, Hey, we know someone in your area that could do A, B, and C. You know, tell your student they should do this first or they should focus on this first. And that way, you know, cause sometimes these, these, these artists are very impatient and they may feel like I’m not getting, you know, there fast enough with this voice teacher, so I’m going to go to this voice teacher.

And it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, it, it becomes this very, the grass is always greener situation. And so they end up hopping around a lot. You know, it’s, it’s unfortunate for the voice teacher because they’re doing a great job, but you know, they may not know the ins and outs of the [00:34:00] industry and, and how to, how to maneuver through it.

So that’s what me and

Elliott: Elliott are here for. Yeah, the relationship between a student and a voice coach is a really really special one, right? And a really intimate one and kind of the first line of defense and the voice teacher Usually, you know sometimes been working with this person for a really long time feels very protective of them of the artist, right?

and so we totally get that and You have to wear a lot of different hats as a voice coach, too You’re like now I’m A& R ing and I’m telling you what I think of these songs and I you know, it’s like In reality, you were asked to just do this thing, but because also you fall in love with the student, right?

And you want to help them succeed, what, again, we’re trying to do is, like, just offer that that community and that support of, like, the trusted people that just go, look, I don’t know. But let me just reach out again, because it benefits, it benefits the student ultimately, but it also benefits the studio to be able to have Someone to call access of going, [00:35:00] look, they need a songwriter.

They need a producer. They need a booking agent. They need whatever. And again, that sort of, you know that you’re ultimately you just want to help them, right? That’s what me and Billy are trying to do. But if you’re, you know, not everyone is in New York or Nashville or London or L. A. So they’re this incredibly talented and gifted vocal coach.

in the middle of maybe nowhere and has no direct line into anywhere. And the last thing you want to do is suggest your student, who you care for deeply and that you’re very protective of, to go down the wrong Lane or path because again, it says the music industry and we all know the horror stories of the these people that are get Taken advantage of again that goes back to why we’re doing what we’re doing is we definitely stand on Really being an honest look and trying to build that trust amongst people just go Look, we bring in people that all share this viewpoint and people that work in the industry and we just want to provide some support and be a part of people’s [00:36:00] journeys, ultimately.

Alexa: So I am one of those singer teachers who, I don’t work in this particular industry at all. So if somebody came to me and they, that was their goal and I reached out to, to you two and said, Hey, what do I do here? How do I help this person get to the next level? What would be the first step for me?

Elliott: We do offer this and we’re trying to expand upon visibility for that, right, is just going, look, okay, reef us in if we’re aware of you over there and go, okay, cool.

So you’ve got this student. This is what they need. This is where they’re at. Give us an honest look. At what you feel like it is that they need. And then us being able to like, sort of, again, all it is we’re doing is we’re just trying to connect, we’re trying to bridge the gap, right? And so it is easy for easier for us, just given our years of being around it and the Rolodex that everyone develops in their own circles.

To be able to go, okay, [00:37:00] cool. Okay. You give me the details. This person is this kind of artist. This is what they need. This is, okay, let me make a call. Let’s try to get you guys in contact. And then and also making sure that we’re. It protects a little bit of like if we know who we’re connecting them with We can have some I don’t want to guidance or supervision maybe to make sure that everything’s going correctly, right?

And we would never you know, we vet the people We we know a ton of really talented people, but also some only some people I would connect with right because it matters, you know I never want someone to go, Hey, you connect me to this producer and he charged me X amount of dollars for these tracks. I mean, that’s a, that’s something we take really, really seriously.

So yeah, I don’t know, I guess first step would legitimately just be reaching out, you know, to us, to our, you know,

Billy: yeah. It really boils down to what the, that specific artist needs. So if an artist came to you and said, Hey, you know, I’ve been with you for six months.[00:38:00] I, my voice has improved this much.

I think I’m ready to you know, go in the studio and maybe record some original music. What do you think? And you go, yeah, I think that you should. Well, then they go, do you know any producers or any writers that I can work with that are, that can give me the music that I want? And you go, I’ll come, I’ll come back to you and then you can reach out and say, Hey, you know, cause I mean, I think for me as an A& R person, former A& R person, it’s like, I want to know, you know, where the artist is at, what, you know, vocally, what they did work on, what they, where they’re excelling, and then what can I do to, to help them get to their goal.

So it’s like, if, if, if they’re starting here and I know they can get to here, what are the steps that need to get, to get done to get to that point? Do they need a new producer? Do they need a songwriter to write, to co write songs with? Do they need to sit down and go through a creative meeting to figure out.

Their sound and their direction. Are they still confused about their sound and direction? All that stuff is important in the beginning to try to figure out, you know, who that artist [00:39:00] is and what they need to do. You know, are they only singing covers? Are they ready to graduate to original songs? It’s all these different things that I have to

Elliott: kind of assess.

I think also just to add in that really quick is that sometimes it’s also important just to be able to echo what maybe you’ve told them. Sometimes it’s hard to hear that just from you, right? And that’s just the reality, like, of them going, you know what, let me get you on a call with them because you’ve been saying, no, no, no, let’s work a little bit more, or whatever it is, right?

Like, they, they feel like that’s where it comes, where they’re just like, you know what, maybe I need to find a different, but if they hear it, again, hopefully from somebody that, again, works in the industry and just, it’s our opinion as well. But if you start hearing common opinions, you start having to start to believe in that.

So I think that’s a valuable thing as well.

Alexa: Yeah, yeah, definitely. My husband says that to me all the time. I, I ask him for advice. He’ll tell me something and I’ll get, eh, I’ll go and ask somebody completely different. They’ll say the same thing. And they’ll

Elliott: say the same thing and he goes, I told you that six months ago.

No, it is. [00:40:00] It’s just the nature of us as humans, right? So yeah, I get that.

Alexa: Yeah. And Elio, what do you think about like, technology has come on so far over the years. It’s quite scary. And now we’re contending with AI. What sort of programs, Should artists be looking at to, to kind of produce their own stuff or get their own original music going and, and what, what do you think AI is going to do to the music industry?

Elliott: I don’t, I mean, I think that remains to be seen of what it would do to the industry. I think look, I think that I’d be lying if I said that it wouldn’t be entertaining to hear a song that. One of my artists wrote and hear what it would sound like if Ariana Grande sang it or whatever, right? Like that’s entertaining and it’s it’s also just wild like I love technology too.

So it’s like as a consumer I’m like, this is interesting. Now. Do I feel for the people that [00:41:00]Again, they’re concerned that there was a song that somebody wrote And produced and they made it seem like drake and the weekend did it and they put it up on spotify it Was like millions of streams million and people like this is the beginning of the end.

It’s like well I don’t know. I, I, who knows? All I, I, all I can say is that I do really love, there are some programs and companies that are starting this they’re like AI based production, right? I love that for artists that have this songwriting ability, but also they can’t play an instrument. They don’t know.

So to me, it’s just another tool of self sustaining to go, I want you to be. Able to work. Cause I don’t want any excuses from you. Right. I love when technology does that. Cause I go, okay, so you’re not a producer and you don’t know where one is. Here’s this site. Go make your tracks and write to it. I don’t care if it’s great or not, you need to be doing these things.

Mm-Hmm. So on that regard, I, I do like [00:42:00] it because it’s going to give, I’m curious on listen, that breeds another version of creativity. So I think to, to label it all bad, I think is really incorrect because I think you’re gonna see some really amazing things as well. Of course, some people may feel, you know, it feels improper.

I think it feels wrong in some ways, but also. And in the end, if someone creates some really amazing, It’s just part of evolution. Yeah, it’s like really, we have no idea yet. I think it’s too soon to call. I remember watching

Billy: this this thing on TV the other day, and they were talking about, this is, I mean, 50, 60 years ago and it was like people angry in the streets about them passing the law that said that all cars have to have seatbelts.

They’re like, and they’re, they’re in upper arms. This is ridiculous. Like, you can’t make me wear my seatbelt. And this is, I don’t know. I’m just thinking like. [00:43:00] Wow. I mean, like, you don’t realize the things that they were angry about back then, but it’s like, it’s, everything evolves and gets better and it’s all, you know, it’s all for the betterment of, of, of us.

So, you know, I’m sure there’s, there’s people that are up in arms about AI and, and, but I think there’ll be a lot of good that comes from it as well. So you know, like Elliott said, we shall see.

Elliott: Yeah, we shall see. It’s too soon to call. It’s entertainment in the end. I know it’s people’s passion and art forms as well, but also you can’t tell me that if I still enjoy, Whoever put in the chat, whatever that program is to, you know, the big thing was also about like writing scripts, right?

Is it what was it chat chat? Yeah, yeah, and you’re just like I I don’t know because If I’m enjoying it in my own way, like, okay So maybe a real person didn’t write this but I’m still enjoying it nonetheless and maybe it’s a real person acting it or whatever You know what? I mean? Like I think it’s gonna give also to be fair some songwriters a real opportunity [00:44:00] So if I were, if, if you’re telling me that you now can pitch a song to the artist that you’re pitching it to having their voice being already on it, that’s kind of a that’s an intriguing thing to me already.

Absolutely. Creepy? Yeah, maybe, but also kind of wild to where you just go, okay, so you’re telling me this person’s going to be able to hear it like they were kind of going to sing it? It could get some people some jobs, some writing credits for sure. I love it. I love it. I love it.

Alexa: I’m scared of it. I’m just a big old scaredy I mean, I’m very much, I would rather we sent things by pigeon.

I like pen and paper.

Elliott: Sure. Sure. That’s just me. It’s gonna be a real, real frustrating time moving forward, I think, for you then. Definitely. We’ve distinguished the pigeons are done, I think that form, you know, but who knows? Maybe, maybe that will come full circle. Who knows?

Alexa: Speaking of pigeons and evolution, Billy, [00:45:00] how do we allow, yeah, good segue.

How do we help our students, our artists, to be a flamingo in a flock of pigeons? And what are they going to be contending with nowadays that they weren’t years ago?

Billy: I, you know, I, I think that that’s, there’s a process there. There’s, you know, there’s a kid that Ellie and I met at camp this past year that came in, was really shy, really talented kid, really shy, really unsure of himself.

Never really performed in front of people and but had a really amazing tone and a really great voice. And the sweetest kid you’ll ever meet in your whole life, like this kid, Roby. And so throughout the week, you know, we, we created this space for him where he just felt safe and supported and, and at camp, that’s the great thing about camp is that everyone that’s there, all the kids that come from all over the world.

Everyone is so loving and supportive and encouraging because that’s the environment that we [00:46:00]create up there. And so by day three, he just felt so safe and he performed and everyone loved him and it was great. So you know, since camp was over, he’s, he’s been really. Not battling, but he’s been getting used to being at home in his home environment and still having that same confidence.

And so I talked to him, Elliott, I talked to him probably every day at some point. He called, he texted me every day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and he, he texted me this morning and he was just saying that he, you know, I feel so amazing. I just feel like I’m finally getting through all of this, this sense of like, of being scared and like, and having the confidence to perform.

And, and so I’m, I’m reading this text. I’m going, it’s taking it, you know, a little bit of time, but he’s, he’s breaking these walls down. It’s not easy. But I think that that’s, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a process and that’s, that’s part of what, you know, what we do at camp, but it’s, it’s hard to get, you know, these, these kids have to feel the love and the confidence and kind of bask in that for [00:47:00] a while before they can find it kind of go other places and kind of go, you know what, I, this is who I am all the time, not just in this environment.

So. I think that that’s, you know, it’s, it’s a process. That’s the first, the first answer. The second, the second one was, what was the second question?

Alexa: What are artists going to be contending with now that they weren’t contending with years ago?

Billy: Social media. And I think that, you know, it’s, it’s, we live in a time now where everyone has an opinion and everybody has a, a, a TikTok account or Instagram account or a, or a, or an X account or a, you know, or a, so it’s like.

If you were insecure about your music before and you share it to the world, you have even more reason to be more insecure about it because you’re going to get people that are going to be trolls and just come at you. And it doesn’t matter what you do. There’s people that are just out there just to tear you down.

They have their page on private. You’ll never know who they are. They don’t even have the balls to show their face [00:48:00] and be a real person that they hide behind, but that’s, that’s the world we live in. So you have to be And it’s great because we have a, a, a mental performance coach at camp named Ayana Sealy, who’s incredible.

But she helps you to really gain that confidence to not let that outside noise affect who you are mentally. And it’s a huge thing. It’s not easy. There’s times where I look at it, I’m like, turn my phone off. I don’t want to see it. You know? Yeah. But it’s, it’s it, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s challenging, but that’s part of, that’s part of being an artist in 2023, 2024, 2025 and beyond, you know?

Yeah.

Elliott: And it’s. Yeah. Yeah. It’s with that being said, it’s like, again, it’s just knowing, knowing the monster that it is, and also knowing that you do have more opportunity now to break in than we ever had before. It was only at one point in time, it was like four or five major labels. That’s it. The term independent artist was just means you didn’t get [00:49:00] signed yet and you were probably broke, right?

So that means you couldn’t say you that was who you are for your career So now like it or not again, it I just will continue to repeat It’s like I would much rather just know what to expect and what we’re dealing with Yeah, because it can be super helpful when you do run into these walls and you do run into these things go.

Aha, okay I at least know, I knew probably it was coming, I didn’t know when, and I can have some tools to be able to kind of like, work through it or around it.

Alexa: Elliott, if you weren’t involved in the music industry at all, what career do you think that you would like?

Elliott: You know what, I think that I grew up playing sports, so at one point in time it was like, that’s what I had a love to do and, you know, and then I think I got to a place now I’m really lucky to have.

mY wife, my two kids, we’re, if I didn’t have a love for this. I actually would be fine doing whatever was asked of me, if it could provide the life that I want to [00:50:00] live with them. That may be not an interesting answer, but it’s like, I feel like I’m totally fine with like, I know how gratifying this is. I don’t, I don’t have a backup thing.

I don’t, I don’t, I don’t have anything else that I love other than them. So it’s like, I think I’d be fine working in a cubicle if it provided me the opportunity to like, you know, us to live how we’re living.

Alexa: Yeah. Aww, aren’t you a lovely husband and father?

Elliott: No, I, I, I think it’s just, I, I, I think maybe I’m just sort of one facet, I’m boring, right, so it’s like I don’t care about anything else, I don’t give a shit about anything else, this turned into, this has turned into more than I could have ever thought, but also I did think this too, like I have grand aspirations, so I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t believe that, you know, I could provide some sort of thing, but also, I don’t know.

I, I, I’m not good at any, at much else. So it’s like, I, I would, I, I’m fine with doing normal shit if yeah. How about you, Billy?

Billy: He’s an amazing friend also. Oh,

Alexa: look at all [00:51:00] the compliments coming your way, Elliott. I

Elliott: know, I know. Billy always has compliments, though. He’s really the best.

Billy: I love Elliott. I’ll straddle from the mountaintops.

iF I wasn’t doing music, I mean, it’s kind of the same answer. I don’t I never had a, I never had a plan B, the, the, the, the fortunate thing is that there’s so many things that you could be doing in the entertainment industry, like, I don’t have to be a manager, I could be a, an agent or or there’s, there’s so, there’s literally so many jobs.

Like Umbrella. Yeah. I mean, you know, there’s, there’s, so I would still be in entertainment. It just would probably just be a different, a different side of it. I mean, you know, my. History has always been wearing multiple hats. So, I mean, I’ve done A& R, I’ve done publishing, I’ve done management, road management.

I’ve done, I mean, there’s, I’ve worn so many different hats over the years. So I, I love all of it. I think that, you know, as long as I’m involved in, in, in you know, in the entertainment [00:52:00] industry and working with talent, you know. But what if you couldn’t?

Elliott: I want to be here in a moment. No, I feel like, I don’t know.

I’m ready

Billy: to come

Elliott: home! Was the answer, should have been like, I don’t know, like garbage? Something completely different? Like, What are, what have been some good answers that you’ve gotten? Have you asked that question? No,

Alexa: I’ve never asked it before, you know, yeah, maybe I won’t ask it again. I think that,

Elliott: I think you should because it is interesting.

Cause yeah. I’m

Billy: a, I’m a very creative person. If I wasn’t doing music, I’d probably be doing something, some kind of, I don’t know, like I love designing shit and like my, you know, like people come to my house, they go. This is great. Who designed this? I’m like, me. Well, what do I do? I do this myself. So

Elliott: maybe there you go.

Maybe that’s what it would

Billy: be. I get that from my mom. My mom is like the most amazing, creative person. My mom is insane. And she doesn’t do it as a job, but she’s like, she like bakes, you know, when you go to like restaurants and they have those elaborate cakes and you’re just like, Oh my God. She does that stuff.

And like, and [00:53:00] like Halloween costumes, she’ll like come in like this most amazing, like Like movie, like movie scene, you’re like, and she, she does everything I tell her, she’ll be cutting and sewing and I’m like, she’s, my mom’s amazing with that stuff, but I didn’t get that creative side from her, but yeah.

Alexa: So an interior designer,

Elliott: potentially. Something like

Billy: that. I mean, some of the stuff that I had in my house, I painted myself, like, I mean, like, I have like little penguins that I, like, are very artsy. They’re crafty.

Elliott: Billy is very crafty. Yeah.

Alexa: Yeah, I love that. So if we are working with a, with a singer who really wants to go into the music industry, but they’re kind of just showing signs of, and I don’t know how to put this kindly, but delusion.

They don’t really have Muses are granted. Yeah. They don’t really have The skills that, that you would need, even though we’re enjoying singing together, like, how can we compassionately help them see the light [00:54:00] without stripping away their love for singing because it’s still important, they’re still human, they still have the right to sing.

Billy: This is my, this is where I’m at with this, right? Because with Spotify and all the DSPs, you know, everything is about playlisting, right? And so artists are being discovered through playlists. And with that being said, a lot of artists that normally wouldn’t get commercial success are finding audiences and, and, and, and, you know, and it might not be a big career where they’re making a lot of money, but they’re finding an audience.

And I think that like, no matter what kind of music you’re doing or trying to do, there’s an audience for everyone. So I think if I had an artist that I felt like didn’t have what it takes to be a commercial artist, then I would discuss with them, you know, trying to do something that’s a little bit more camp and And in their [00:55:00] own kind of niche, right?

Because I think that, you know, there’s a lot of artists that don’t have amazing voices or that aren’t amazing singers that are, that find a way to become successful because they did something very kind of gimmicky or, or, or very novelty And, and there’s, there’s success around that and all you need is one record, all you need is one song to go and, and then you’re, you know, you can tour for the rest of your life on that one song.

I mean, obviously within reason, you know, but if there’s a way to make it work with what they have, I will always try to find

Elliott: that way. I, I don’t know if I would ever discourage someone, especially if I felt like, like you said, they were just enjoying it. And they’re kind of like, shit, everyone should be so lucky to have something that they do to, that they enjoy, you know what I mean?

Like, and. It, like Billy said, weirder stuff has happened. I don’t know. I mean, obviously if they’re dreadful, why you would even discourage them is so they don’t waste time and money, right, to do something and, oh my God, you really need to be focusing on [00:56:00] something else as well. I think there is maybe a way to explain those, like, you know, just make sure you’re doing, you know, what else are you going to do?

Like, because everyone does multiple things. I had a regular job way after I started seeing success with the first artist that I was managing a normal job so that I would go and we’d have these huge shows and the next day I’d go to work like it was like so everyone does multiple things and has to especially this day and age so I think that I would continue to just have them focus on other stuff as well but again if they enjoy it I think I think that’s so cool and that’s so awesome like because it is so difficult to Continue to do something like this if you really aren’t that good, you know what I mean?

Like that takes more You know, like you said, yeah, delusion, you could be insane, you could just have the confidence, the balls, whatever you want to say, it’s like, but I applaud that for the most part.

Alexa: We can’t [00:57:00] not talk about Vocalize You because you have got some cool events coming up that we absolutely must chat about before we let you go.

But for anybody who hasn’t heard of Vocalize You before, Billy, can you just explain what it is and why it was set up? It’s

Billy: so, so Dave Stratton is a vocal coach, it was an incredible started this camp about 25 years ago. It was started off as a singing camp for, for singers and vocalists. And then about 15 years ago, he brought in Elliott and myself just in different capacities to help out with the camp.

Elliott: I was moving keyboards at that time. I was not even involved in the music industry. So Billy was already Billy and he was at the top of the mountain. So. He, he won’t say that, but yes. Look at you t

Alexa: you’ve got such a bromance, .

Elliott: Hell yeah. That’s my man right there. Yeah. Yeah. Love each other. I feel like I’m third wheeling here,

Not at all. I know. Everyone feels like that though.

Billy: Everybody feels that way about . So we, we came on board and we we, we help kind of navigate where the camp, you know, we thought where the camp should go just because we’re both, [00:58:00]you know, we’re, we’re, we’re seeing how the climate and the industry was changing and so.

You know, eventually Dave brought us in as partners, equal partners, and then eventually he passed the baton to Elliott and I, so now Elliott and I own it. But it’s great because we have a vision of, of where we want this camp to go, but it’s basically a, a 10 day artist intensive, where artists Singers, songwriters, producers, anyone that wants to be involved in the music industry and the business side of it, a manager or a publisher can come.

It’s a very intense 10 days of curriculum. We bring in teachers you know, their expertise in all these different fields. And they basically, you know, will explain to you. The climate of the industry where it’s at currently, where, you know, how, how to get your music heard if you’re an independent artist one of the, one of the best ways to get your stuff created, heard without having to rely on, on a label.

I think a lot of times artists are very. Like I said earlier, they’re very like, I want to, I want to get signed to a major label. I want to do this and do that. That’s not the best, that’s not the best [00:59:00] use of, of your talent. I think you need to build it and we show you how to kind of build it on your own.

It’s very, you know, do do yourself approach. I can’t, I always get. Don’t know what I’m trying to say now but you know, we also bring in mentors every year. We bring in, you know, Grammy award winning songwriters and Grammy award winning producers and, and artists. Some of your favorite artists come up to camp and they, and they mentor these, these, these students with us because they, they, they are speaking from their experience as an artist and the challenges that they’ve had.

The hurdles that they’ve had to, to get over and it’s very relatable. So, so we create this very amazing, safe environment for kids to come.

Elliott: People of all ages really mean, it’s artists in general,

Billy: Artists as young as 10, 11, all the way up to, you know, 45, 50. So there’s a broad range of artists that come to camp, you know.

Elliott: It’s songwriting classes, it’s performing classes, it’s branding classes, it’s production classes, we do, we do have a musical theater track as well.

Like we do feel like we try to cut, the pieces of the pie of what it would take [01:00:00] to be, you know, an artist in today’s world, right? And the teachers that we bring in to, to teach about this, it’s not like overview of stuff. We’re really workshopping the stuff that you have because you don’t get access to the people that we bring in there to teach or mentor.

You don’t get access to those people. Especially in this way, so you really get a chance to hear an honest opinion about what your stuff is, an honest look about where the industry is going and what’s going on. Because again, being an, an artist can be incredibly isolating, right? So for me, it’s like, imagine coming to, I’m so sorry, my dog is in the background,

iMagine if, you know, if you, we see people come there and immediately. Feel like, Oh my God, these are my like people. They get it because my friends aren’t trying to be musicians. They don’t get it. My family aren’t in the industry, anything like that. So to build your community [01:01:00] is really, really crucial because also they get it.

You’re all there and you’re all kind of comparing yourselves at first too, but I think we set a tone of where it’s like, oh, it’s totally not about that either. We have people that have had a record deal, that have gotten dropped have done tours, people that are super green, so super raw, where it’s just talent or passion or all the above.

And again, it’s, it’s it’s trying, we’re trying to put tools in the tool belt. That’s all that we’re trying to do. We’re trying to give you these light bulb moments. Where you leave there and you have contact with us throughout the year and we’re able to kind of get updates. We’re doing these updates, you know, a couple times a week with these people that have been there at camp and going, Okay, so tell me where you’re at.

What are you working on right now? The goals that we had you set at camp. What’s going on? Because it’s super easy when you’re there in this bubble where you get to be super selfish and from sunup to sundown you get to focus on your stuff. When you get home and you have family and work and school or whatever it is that you’re doing, it’s, [01:02:00] it’s hard to be.

continue to stay motivated outside of that bubble when there’s not a million people around you in that environment. So again, it’s important to try to go, okay, so what are we working on here? What are the obstacles? When someone tells me an obstacle, it’s our job to kind of like Pop that balloon and go.

It’s actually not that at all. It’s not that obstacle, right? And again, we’re trying to dispel these rumors or these, these false thoughts where again I need a label. I need a manager. I need an art. Like, okay, so if someone comes and goes, I need a manager, I’m like, to manage what? You don’t have anything yet.

Start, start working on these things again. But if they don’t, people don’t know what they don’t know. It’s our job to try to give them an honest opinion about that and go, aha, okay, okay. I think I understand where I’m supposed to go now. And propel for the next, you know, little bit.

Alexa: And you quite clearly are the people to know.

So, can you tell us, I know it’s early days, but what’s lined up for VocalizeU 2024 [01:03:00] already?

Elliott: I mean, another great year. I think, you know, as Billy said, like the curriculum can alter and change each year a little bit. Like we’re always trying to tighten it up. And also sometimes that’s figuring out as these, you know, these people are signing up to attend to go, what do they need?

Right? We’re not doing fluff stuff. We, you know, at one point in time, there was classes that I feel like me and Billy can look at at the end and go, okay, this wasn’t as helpful. This wasn’t as productive, right? So we’re really trying to, again, to bring in the people that we’ve all. Me and Billy have met throughout the years that are kind enough to like donate their time to come there and speak to people.

And not just like, it’s not just talking about their career. It’s like literally they hang out after their speech, their lecture, and the kids are able to, people are able to ask them a million questions, and then they’re in contact. That’s unbelievable. There’s no space that is like that. It’s not about Seeing a celebrity or seeing a famous [01:04:00] person that wrote this thing.

It’s legitimately having conversations with them and trying to get them to be able to give them, you know, their insight into some critiques here. That’s the only way we’re all learning, right? And I think sometimes even if one person in the class is getting their stuff worked on. Everyone’s benefiting from that.

So I think it’s a, you know, it’s the longest running, you know, a music camp in LA and we try to change it up each and every year to make sure that it’s benefiting as many people as possible. And yeah, each year it’s, it’s incredible. And it’s incredible for me and Billy too, cause it kind of even being in this industry.

is a beatdown, right? And so I think being around that hunger from all these people that are still, like, really trying to climb that mountain, it recharges us, for sure.

Alexa: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that’s quite an inspiring place to be.

Elliott: Oh my god, yeah, it’s super emotional too, like, oddly enough, like, it’s a real, like, seeing these people have these moments right in front of you, and you don’t think, I don’t [01:05:00] think, In that short period of time that maybe a lot can get accomplished.

And you see these people come out of their shells and have this like aha moment or this this total, they were so reluctant and they jumped. It’s like a really, yeah, it’s, it’s incredible to see and now we see them onwards and upwards and it’s like some of them are out touring and they are having this crazy success and it’s just so amazing to be able to feel like oh, yeah you came here and you were, again, but you took the initiative to come.

You wanted to get there. And and that, that gets rewarded most of the time.

Alexa: And Billy would singing teachers also benefit from being a part of this.

Billy: Absolutely. I mean, I think, I think that, you know, like I said before, it’s, it’s very important to understand as much as you can, just the business side of it because it’s, it, it allows the same teachers to help their students so much better and just be such a, a more resourceful you know, well rounded teacher.

Because like I said, like Elliott said earlier the [01:06:00] voice teachers are like a therapist, you know? And everything that the artist or the singer has questions about, they’re gonna go to you because you have that bond and that trust. So it’s just a matter of, you know, being able to have some additional answers.

Based on, you know, the industry and the, and, and the trends and how things are changing in the industry and what’s, you know, what’s working, what’s not working, all that

Elliott: kind of stuff. So

Billy: we want to send them back to you better than when they left and also re energized and re motivated and everything.

Cause then you’re going to get a better version of them, you know? Yeah.

Alexa: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you have been so very kind to us because you have offered us a banger of a discount for the vocalize you 2024 tickets. So listeners, you can get a whopping 850. Off of your ticket using the codes HOLIDAY500 and BASST350 and we’ll put all the links and codes in the show notes so you can head on over there immediately and book your plays.

Elliott and Big Billy Clark, thank you so much for joining me today and good luck for [01:07:00]everything.

Elliott: Thank you so much. We appreciate it.